30–31)Google Scholar; Cornford, , Plato and Parmenides, p. 79Google Scholar (cf. page 221 note 1 10538. Socrates, forms, soul, immortality, indestructible. page 212 note 1 thought of simply as number, i.e. page 213 note 1 Essentially the same qualification is contained in 102e4, 102e8, 103d7, d 12, 104c3. Keywords: There fore we have here in effect nothing more than the normal twofold division of form and particularization: largenesss and the largeness in Simmias. THE LAST ARGUMENT OF PLATO'S PHAEDO. page 204 note 3 Apart from the phrase in the present passage, 102d9, Plato consistently writes each time he presents the formula: 102d9–e2, 103a1, d8, d10–11, 104b 10–c1. A thing can be both large and small: at the same time larger than one thing and smaller than another, and at different times larger and smaller than the same thing. cit., p. 143Google Scholar, seeks to contrast with the present passage of the Phaedo two passages in the Parmenides, 128e6–129a6 and 130 b, where he finds only forms and ‘sensible participants’. The Argument From Form of Life. A cause of confusion has perhaps been the mistaken application to the metaphor of Aristotle's criticism of the Phaedo at De gen. et corr., 335b 14–15.Google Scholar, page 204 note 2 The result is particularly clear in two remarks by Taylor and by Bluck. Thus there would still be no ‘immanent form’ that was other than the form of three and other than the particular three that characterized oxen. It goes hand to hand with the application of the theory of forms to the question of the soul's immortality, as Plato constantly reminds us, the theory of forms is the most certain of all his theories. Elsewhere the fact that one opposite form will not accept its opposite is expressed in terms of 102d6, 103c 1, or ’always having the right to its own name’, 103e3–4, e6–7, or simply in terms of and 103b4–5, C7–8. speaks, Vlastos of the ‘marginal status’ of forms designated by the common noun, Philos. page 202 note 1 We observe below, p. 213, that Plato probably thinks of simply as number. Mills, , Phronesis ii (1957), 139–40Google Scholar, distinguished ‘the opposite in us’ from both forms and ‘sensible participants’ or ‘sensibles’, without making it clear whether he means sensible qualities or sensible substances: as will be seen, the distinction is crucial. Three oxen would contain as an attribute the particularization of the form of three. Judgements on its value have usually been adverse. page 225 note 1 It may be true, however, that soul is the only cause of life, in that other things are alive only through the agency of soul. We shall see in a moment that Hackforth also equates and in this passage as ‘immanent form’. Euthyphro (/ ˈ juː θ ɪ f r oʊ /; Ancient Greek: Εὐθύφρων, romanized: Euthyphrōn; c. 399–395 BC), by Plato, is a Socratic dialogue whose events occur in the weeks before the trial of Socrates (399 BC), between Socrates and Euthyphro. Plato happens not to mention ‘not-odd’. For the form of three, being a form, could no more ‘withdraw or perish’ than could the opposite forms. The Phaedo's final argument ends at 106e-107a with the conclusion 'a soul is something immortal and indestructible, and our souls really will exist in Hades'. It is curious that in his commentary, p. 161, Hackforth should go out of his way to criticize Plato precisely for making fire the only cause of heat. as well as being characterized by the even and excluding the odd. Strata's criticism is repeated with approval by Hackforth, , p. 163Google Scholar, and by some earlier critics. The final page, we shall argue, will have seemed to Plato in some ways less important, and even something of an embarrassment. This study offers a new analysis of the last argument of Plato's Phaedo for the immortality of the soul. )Google Scholar. Now Plato introduces a new feature: things like fire and snow that can be only hot or only cold. For the combination of would show that what was compared to was not the small itself, but the small in us. Two problems with the last argument for the immortality of the soul in Plato’s Phaedo. page 224 note 2 That fever is not the only cause of sick ness happens to be stated explicitly in the second Alcibiades 140–b. cit., p. 117: the addition of ‘can hardly be because Plato wanted to make it plain that he had referred to the Form’.Google Scholar. The form of three could properly be said not to ‘stay behind’ at the approach of an opposite form. Cornford in his article on this passage, C.Q. "comments": true, But life in soul excludes, as we shall see, the possibility of change. A third remarks that the conclusion follows ‘if we do not look too closely’. page 226 note 3 There is the same implication at Rep. 611a4–6. Nothing can be alive and dead at the same time. 3. Since the sequence of Plato's thought and language demands that is the same as ‘whatever the form of three possesses’, it follows on Hackforth's interpretation that the same thing, immanent form, will be at the same time object and subject of the verb. Feature Flags last update: Sat Dec 05 2020 17:00:21 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) 2. Maybe coming to life is the former rather than the latter; but the argument seems to depend on it being an instance of the latter. page 225 note 2 There is, as we have noted before, p. 212, this difference: that a group of things cannot at the same time be odd as well as even, whereas water, for example, can at the same time be hot as well as cold. The Phaedo's final argument ends at 106e-107a with the conclusion ‘a soul is something immortal and indestructible, and our souls really will exist in Hades’. Occasional turns of expression have been taken from Hackforth's translation. But the fact that Socrates’ example of accidental attribution has to be expressed in terms of one thing's relation to another is incidental to the main purpose of the argument. p. 208) Plato speaks of the possibility of perishing, whereas according to Aristotle, Met. (A half, for example, is essentially smaller than a whole, but at the same time it is larger than something else, a quarter; it is not only small.) C.Q N.S. The first example said that an opposite character, ‘the large in us’, could never become its opposite, but must withdraw or perish. Socrates’ final argument (in the Phaedo) for the immortality of the soul. xi (1958), 193–243CrossRefGoogle Scholar. 123Google Scholar n. 1 cf. In the Phaedo, Socrates’ first argument of Immortality is the Cyclical Argument of Opposites . In the Phaedo, Plato provides several arguments in an attempt to prove the immorality of the soul. 1960), p. 41Google Scholar n. 284. page 207 note 1 See Hackforth, , p. 165 n. 1, and Scarrow.Google Scholar. Contrast Bluck, , op. Possibly the approach of smallness means that Simmias is compared to Phaedo. I 199 from the course of the argument,' that the opposite character in each example is the particularization of an opposite form.z Socrates begins the argument by distinguishing the particular character of largeness from the subject in which the character inheres, 102 a Io-d 4:3 This was agreed. "metrics": true, "relatedCommentaries": true, For there are in effect two possible particularizations: the particular attribute, relative largeness or smallness, and the Simmias or Socrates. Click above to read Plato´s “Phaedo”.- Please, subscribe or login to access full text content. 11 February 2009. page 217 note 3 We have already commented, p. 208, on the implication of the ‘unreal’ form of condition at this point. "subject": true, Ls: Socrates is alive “___(…” is the conditional sign; it’s read as “If ___, then …”, or “If p, then q”. 232–3Google Scholar; Keyt, Scarrow, p. 169 n. 1.Google Scholar. . Public users can however freely search the site and view the abstracts and keywords for each book and chapter. It began at 95e, with some prolonged criticism of various wrong theories about how to explain coming into and going out of existence. "clr": false, Bekker, in making out that it is specific numbers like ten and five, not die opposites double and half, which constitute the exception to Plato's earlier statement of his thesis. The Phaedo's final argument ends at 106e-107a with the conclusion ‘a soul is something immortal and indestructible, and our souls really will exist in Hades’. Phaedo begins his account of Socrates ’s final hours. You could not be signed in, please check and try again. Published online by Cambridge University Press: Whatever is true of fire will fairly obviously be intended to be true of snow. View all Google Scholar citations cit., pp. T.I., p. 25Google Scholar, which is not entirely consistent with p. 60. That no doubt is one reason why Plato chooses the example which he does. 12 Why no Platonistic Ideas of Artefacts? Bekker. Burnet, J., Plato's Phaedo, etc., Oxford, 1911Google Scholar. Judgements on its value have usually been adverse. The dialogue covers subjects such as the meaning of piety and justice. Scarrow, D. S., ‘Phaedo 106 A–106E’, Philos. page 203 note 2 ‘Withdraw’ is used to cover, in the present passage, and and later in the argument 106a4, and or 106a10 and e7. pp. In fact Plato's distinction in the Parmenides between the form of likeness and ‘the likeness which we have’ is precisely the same as the distinction in the Phaedo between the form of large and ‘the large in us’. The first is known as the Argument from Opposites 2. 164.Google Scholar. Eel. 43–46 and Williamson.Google Scholar. It goes hand to hand with the application of the theory of forms to the question of the soul's immortality, as Plato constantly reminds us, the theory of forms is the most certain of all his theories. If this phrase meant ‘immanent form’ as Hackforth supposes, there would be no point in the difference between. Verdenius, p. 235, wrongly interprets: as well as ‘other things, such as, for example, five, which as being “half” is the opposite of ‘double”, ‘not of “even”’.Google Scholar. 216–21, Plato introduces the form of three. 123m Wehrli. 19 Wachsmuth, ; and p. 161.Google Scholar. For fire can turn something into fire: but it is not obvious that snow can turn something into snow. In Phaedo four arguments describe how the soul can be immortal with the fourth argument presenting what most deem the most convincing and the most sound. ... the picture of Socrates playing with the hair of Phaedo, the final scene in which Socrates alone retains his composure—are masterpieces of art. A thing can be both hot and cold: at the same time hotter than one thing and colder than another, and at different times hotter and colder than the same thing. On the other hand the form of three could not have applied to it the rest of the metaphor. three thought of as particular three, but not as associated with a group of sensible objects, should lead, we might think, to a theory of intermediates. i, p. 22Google Scholar. One scholar speaks of the ‘screen of unreal argument’ which concludes the proof, and writes that ‘from the standpoint of logic the argument has petered out into futility’. page 204 note 4 It has seemed slightly simpler in explaining this third image to speak of physical change, Simmias or Socrates becoming actually larger or smaller. A problem with the argument as outlined in your handout is that C1 (souls must be alive and cannot be dead) in fact does not follow logically from P1 (An organism has a soul if and only if it is alive). This development of Plato's thought, if such it is, is not unlike the development of thought and expression in the images of the line, the sun, and the cave in the Republic. Rev. Loading... Unsubscribe from dtouey? page 226 note 2 There would be the same implication with the less likely alternative translation, although the verbal parallelism would be slightly less exact. Individual souls have been Plato's concern throughout the dialogue, as is evident from such phrases as al see 70b2–4, C4–5, 71e2, 72d9–e1, 76 e6. Verdenius, W. J., ‘Notes on Plato's Phaedo’, Mnemosyne, ser. page 205 note 4 It follows that it would be clearer to reverse Burnet's punctuation: to print a colon instead of a full stop at 102e3, and a full stop instead of a colon at e 6. page 206 note 1 Even were we to adopt Heindorf's and Hackforth's interpretation then would still be the large in us. Hackforth's, constant references to ‘immanent form’, cf. page 227 note 1 The argument concludes with 107a1. 202–3. This therefore is the least exclusive of Plato's examples. Now, if our interpretation is correct, 105a3–4 is used without this implication of hostility of a form occupying a particular. Oxford Scholarship Online requires a subscription or purchase to access the full text of books within the service. It is perhaps not too cavilling to question Hack-forth's distinction between soul as form and soul as substance, pp. Shorey reveals the source of his error when he goes on to speak of ‘the duplication of the idea’ in this passage as ‘a device employed here only … for the purpose of the argument’. page 209 note 1 Shorey allows that in general in Plato's world ‘there are really only two things’, form and particular, but writes of the present passage that it ‘seems to yield three things: the idea, per se, the idea in the particular, and the particular as affected by the idea’, The Unity of Plato's Thought (Chicago, repr. 4, vol. Plato could have thought of the three in three oxen as simplyanalogous to the large in large oxen. page 213 note 2 Fr. page 199 note 3 Burnet's text has been used, except where otherwise stated. The Phaedo gives us four different arguments for the immortality of the soul: The Argument from Opposites, the Theory of Recollection, the Argument from Affinity, and the final argument, given as a response to Cebes' objection. However, at least at one point (mere is some inconsistency in his exposition) Cornford speaks of ten ‘qua “double”’ as the subject of the sentence, and so appears to follow earlier commentators, e.g. 216–17 above. page 206 note 3 Whether at this moment, 104c8–9, we supply and so think of the form of three, or whether we think of particular three, does not affect the interpretation of the metaphor. This qualification may apply in two ways. Williamson, H., The Phaedo of Plato, etc., LondonGoogle Scholar, 9104. Other possible renderings are ‘although itself’ and ‘actually itself’. page 221 note 3 105 b 1–2. Only some things characterized by opposite forms are characterized essentially by them: as well as fire which is only hot there is water which can be at once both hot and cold. page 208 note 1 p. 148 n. 3, cf. An individual user may print out a PDF of a single chapter of a monograph in OSO for personal use. Some systems of course allowed for the notion of 105 c 2, looks back to 101 C 8. page 225 note 3 Whatever is true of fire will presumably be true also of fever: but it is best to found our analysis on those examples which Plato has described more in detail. We use cookies to distinguish you from other users and to provide you with a better experience on our websites. It is written as a third-person account of a philosophical conversation between Socrates and his friends, on the day he died (Cooper ix). Cf. page 223 note 2 105 b 7, looks back to 100c–e and 101d2, where is used three times. If ten were the subject of the sentence, at 105 a 8 would have to refer to which with a singular neuter noun, intervening would be very awkward. A summary of Part X (Section11) in Plato's Phaedo. 106–8.Google Scholar. T.I., pp. For we might perhaps argue that sensible fire ‘possesses’ wood and impresses its ‘character’ upon it. For more recent discussion references are given by Verdenius, p. 210. Bluck, R. S., A Translation of Plato's Phaedo, etc., London 1955Google Scholar. Essentially the same criticism is echoed by Keyt, , p. 169, when he complains that laughter, as well as soul, ‘always comes to whatever it occupies bearing life’. On the question of intermediates in the Phaedo see Ross, , P. Bekker, I., Platonis … scripta graece omnia, etc., Phaedo, vol. the opposite itself as the opposite in us and the opposite in nature, is not a duplication in some strange sense of the form, but the normal division between form and particularization of form Cf. "hasAccess": "0", page 212 note 2 103e3, discussed above, p. 203. Part I: The Final Argument In the final argument of the Phaedo, Plato attempts to show that the soul is immortal. Perfect for acing essays, tests, and quizzes, as well as for writing lesson plans. Exposition and Criticism of the Final Argument for Immortality of the Soul in Phaedo April 8, 2019 by Essay Writer In the prior conversations, Cebes proposes that even though the soul is long-lasting, it can be worn out and destroyed (91d). writes, Bluck, p. 118: ‘If a man who is bad in a certain respect is to become good in the same respect, the “bad in him” must first depart—it must either “flee and give way” or “perish’. Full text views reflects PDF downloads, PDFs sent to Google Drive, Dropbox and Kindle and HTML full text views. "openAccess": "0", Phaedo Final Argument 1 dtouey. But how could snow ‘possess’ some thing and impress its ‘character’ upon it? Socrates accepts that he has to die in order to attain the objectives of true philosophy (Cooper 94, Phaedo 63c). The exclusion of the alternative, depends on the preceding argument, where the metaphor is first introduced, not, as does on the conditional clause. B., The Theory of Motion in Plato's Later Dialogues, p. 8.Google Scholar, page 198 note 4 Crombie, I. M., An examination of Plato's doctrines, ii. Similarly, will be used in a moment, we shall argue, of the form of soul coming to particular soul, 105d3. Now we have a substance, snow, which in virtue of an opposite characteristic cannot admit an opposite, but must withdraw or perish. ... For the conclusion that the soul never admits death, and is in that sense was probably in Plato's eyes the heart of the argument. An Analytic Outline of Plato's Phaedo Brian B. Clayton THE FIRST THREE IMMORTALITY ARGUMENTS IN THE "PHAEDO" 1. * Views captured on Cambridge Core between September 2016 - 5th December 2020. page 206 note 2 alone, without is applied to opposite forms at 104 b 7–8 and 105a2. These include the argument of forms and the law of opposites. "crossMark": true, page 203 note 1 Later in the sentence we are told of something other than the opposite receiving 10365, where fers to Hackforth acknowledges his difficulty in explaining this phrase if as well as means ‘immanent form’. FAQs The main argument of the Phaedo is derived from the existence of eternal ideas of which the soul is a partaker; the other argument of the alternation of opposites is replaced by this. To this extent alive and dead are as exclusive as odd and even. Numbers can be only odd or only even in the same way as fire can be only hot and snow can be only cold. vi (1956), 35. page 218 note 2 Verdenius's comparisons are accepted in effect by Rise, , op. If you should have access and can't see this content please, Die Weltanschauung Platos dargestellt im Anschlusse an den Dialog Phädon. Query parameters: { Plato, he notes, is absent because he’s “ill.” Phaedo and his friends have gotten used to visiting Socrates, but on this particular morning they’re informed that he’ll be executed. Perhaps this is too much meaning to give to Verdenius may be right, that is a gloss. In this way odd and even are a degree more exclusive than hot and cold. There will be the distinction between form and particular whichever translation we adopt, cf. A criticism of this argument, based on the distinction between coming to exist and acquiring a property. page 217 note 1 Burnet, note ad loc, denies that Plato's language here describes forms. from 102d6, from of hot or cold, 103e3, from of odd and even, 104c7, from 106d6. 5 the half of 10 and 6 the half of 12, are (except on Cornford's thesis) either odd or even, unlike the doubles which can be only even. It might be thought therefore that, when Plato introduces fire, which can be only hot, and snow, which can be only cold, he is concerned to draw a distinction between absolute and relative attribution. The Phaedo is Plato’s attempt to convince us of the immortality of the soul by using several main arguments. To these add Bluck, Phronesis iv (1959), 7Google Scholar n. 2, and Rist, , Phronesis ix (1964), 27ff.Google Scholar. page 207 note 4 is used in later Greek in a different sense, see L.S.J., s.v. page 216 note 1 The view that before this there has been a form of fire and a form of snow is considered under (iii) below, pp. ... the responses to the criticisms of the Recollection theory will indicate why it holds as the prominent argument over the Cyclical. But very possibly Plato is thinking simply of comparison. vi (1956), 33–34Google Scholar; Verdenius, , pp. 188–91Google Scholar. II - Volume 18 Issue 1 - D. O'Brien. For ‘the duplication of the idea’, i.e. 204–6Google Scholar (criticized by Ross, , P. The latter qualification is essential to the understanding of Socrates' question at 105b8–c2, see pp. The point of his remark is precisely to show that the earlier law applies to these substances. In the Phaedo Plato has perhaps been encouraged to write by the example of the plurals immediately preceding, (Earlier when he speaks of and Plato uses the singular expression 7439–12.) Socrates then proceeds to give his final proof of the immortality of the soul by showing that the soul is immortal as it is the cause of life. Simmias can cease to be compared with Socrates—rather than Simmias' actually growing smaller or Socrates' actually growing larger—and in that case the comparative ‘largeness’ in Simmias ‘perishes’. If meant three as an attribute of numbered objects, then three oxen would be like large Simmias. The series of odd fractions like the series of even fractions excludes wholeness. Equally, in the previous image the point may be not so much that Simmias and Socrates stay the same size, though that will in fact have to be so, but that despite the approach in some way of smallness Simmias continues to be compared to Socrates. Later, as one word or two, will be used again in the hostile sense, 106b 3, b8, e5. Phaedo - Summary - The Argument From Form of Life. Socrates In The Phaedo Final Analysis. DOI:10.1093/acprof:oso/9780199289974.003.0005, 1 Looking Inside Charmides' Cloak: Seeing Others and Oneself in Plato's Charmides *, 2 Socrates and Philosophy as a Way of Life*, 3 Virtue as the Love of Knowledge in Plato's Symposium and Republic *, 6 Beauty of Body, Nobility of Soul: The Pursuit of Love in Plato's Symposium *, 8 Virgil's Sacred Duo: Phaedrus' Symposium Speech and Aeneid IX *, 12 Why no Platonistic Ideas of Artefacts? It can never ‘stay behind’ at the approach of the opposite. The colour of an apple, which is an accidental but not a relative attribute, would have served equally well as a contrast to, and as a preparation for, the essential hotness of fire and the essential aliveness of soul. page 218 note 1 It follows that in the preliminary statement of the numerical example, 104b 2–3, is later expressed as in line with 104e8–10. Along with a group of friends—including Crito, Cebes, and Simmias —he spends time in Socrates’s cell. Taylor and Bluck have reduced Plato's two events in effect to a single event.Google Scholar. also Aristotle, Top. ‘Particular’ used as a noun suggests something substantial and so, as we shall see, in the case of an attribute encourages a false notion of immanent form. page 221 note 2 105 a 8. lxx (1961), 245–52CrossRefGoogle Scholar. It argues that this theory is weak enough to be plausible, yet strong enough to come surprisingly close to yielding the conclusion that a soul is something immortal and indestructible. Wyttenbach ap. (c) Copyright Oxford University Press, 2020. page 221 note 5 This interpretation seems to be suggested by Cornford's article on the passage. Rev. We shall observe below, p. 228 n. 1, that this difference may in fact have some secondary significance. The qualification, which Hackforth leaves untranslated, looks forward to and the addition of, page 229 note 2 This view follows essentially from Strata's criticism, see p. 213 above. We do perhaps see here an indication of how Plato's mind worked to produce such a theory. page 220 note 2 It would be difficult to interpret the definition at 104d 1–3 in terms of the distinction between fire and wood, even if, like Burnet, we were to suppose that and need not apply to forms. But in this argument cannot as yet properly be intermediate three, for at 104c 1–3 and by implication at 106 a 1 (cf. These instances include occasions when the opposite form is said to be ‘always’ itself and ‘never’ its opposite. Archer-Hind, R. D., The Phaedo of Plato, etc., 2nd edition, London, 1894Google Scholar. Variations of ‘never’ occur at 102d6, d8, e6–7, 103b4~–5, c1, 07, d5, d11, 104a3, d10, e1, 105a5, in the case of soul 105d 10–11, and with 106 a g, d 7. iii (1909), 189–91, adopts the latter translation at one point; another time he translates ‘itself also’. page 211 note 2 103e 2. Learn exactly what happened in this chapter, scene, or section of Phaedo and what it means. Plato's Cosmology, p. 184)Google Scholar; and Bluck, , pp. page 205 note 1 102d7–e3, 103d5–8, d 10–12, 104b 8–C3, c7–9, e7–105a5, a6–b3, 105d 10 ff., 106 a 5–6, b3–4, At 106 a 3–6 Plato writes that if were imperishable, The point of this is not that snow would ‘stay behind’ if it were not imperishable. "lang": "en" Argument 1: The Argument from Opposites (70b-72d) (1) If the souls of the living come only from the dead, then the souls of men who have died must exist in the underworld. Moment that Hackforth also equates and in this passage, C.Q Phaedo ) for the of! The example which he does,, ii, pp consistent with p. 60 fire... Sense essentially large or essentially small, only large or essentially small, only or... Particularization of another form 212 note 2 that fever is not the small in us as! 212 note 1 see Hackforth,, ii, pp, 2 Hälfte, Halle 1850–1852Google. And dead are as exclusive as odd and even, 104c7, from 106d6 ‘ possess some. And impress its ‘ character ’ upon it in Plato ’ s main character Socrates ca n't this. Behind ’ at the approach of the argument, voiced by Plato s. Clayton the first three immortality arguments in the way in which three can alive... Moment that Hackforth also equates and in this way the opposite it itself an form. 105 b 7, looks back to 101 c 8. page 224 note 2 alone, is... Show that the soul end of this passage, C.Q provide you with a experience... 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Has chosen to concentrate on three simply as number whatever is true of fire should presumably true... 'S Phaedon, 2 Hälfte, Halle, 1850–1852Google Scholar perfect for acing,..., constant references to ‘ stay behind ’ at the same way as can... Cookies to distinguish you from other users and to provide you with a better on... Form of life, J., Plato and Parmenides, p. 184 ) Google Scholar ; Keyt, scarrow D.! Are described as personal use that sensible fire ‘ possesses ’ wood and impresses its character... Between the two examples shift in meaning does not seem to place weight..., there would in fact be this difference between and justice applies to these.... In the difference between the two examples but it is true of fire fairly... Some earlier critics to Verdenius may be right, that Plato 's for! Closely ’, 2nd edition, London, 1894Google Scholar access options below to access full text...., Met Stob, for ‘ the duplication of the last argument of Plato 's events! Of life phaedo final argument a new analysis of the Recollection theory will indicate why it as. Could the opposite forms small itself, but the small itself, but small. Form occupying a particular see pp used again in the present argument thinks. What it means ten.Google Scholar ; five is half ten.Google Scholar ‘ Notes on Plato 's language here forms. This case provides a particularly striking example of essential predication, Plato has to. Theory, would be the particularization of the Phaedo are described as a leap in reasoning a non..
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